Noted and Queried

[shewhomust]

Another one from the Guardian: Notes and Queries is part of their ongoing campaign to persuade the readers to write the newspaper for them. Readers submit questions, other readers (or, for all I know, the same readers - I'm not keeping track) submit answers, and the Guardian publishes them, apparently unmediated, in the sense that some of the questions are plain silly, and some of the answers are plain wrong.

Snark aside, it's usually entertaining and occasionally thought-provoking. Some of the questions act (intentionally or otherwise) as the set up line for jokes ("Is a dead badger still a badger?", "Can vegetarians eat jellyfish?"), some make me snarl "Oh, go and look it up yourself!", others (though I can't off-hand think of an example) are the sort of sidewise approach to an issue which wouldn't be easy to research, and can draw interesting answers from people who know what they are talking about.

Into which category, though, should I place yesterday's query: "Before AD, what did people of the BC era call their years?" I'm hoping it's a joke...

ETA: It occurs to me belatedly, having seen the comments on this post, that of course they started counting from the creation of the world, and that they called their years 'years' (just as we call our world 'the world', on the basis that it's the only sort there is).

Comments

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

Hee! Reminds me of all those poor people in the 1300s wishing they weren't sandwiched in the Middle Ages.

[shewhomust.livejournal.com]

Waiting, IIRC, for St Christophus Columba to discover how to make an egg stand on its wrong end, and for Modern History to begin.

[martyn44.livejournal.com]

Bill, Elizabeth, Julius . . .

[shewhomust.livejournal.com]

That's: Leonard, Adolph, Julius... surely?

[martyn44.livejournal.com]

What's in a name? A rose by any other . . .

[mabfan.livejournal.com]

Rephrased, though, that's a legitimate question. Archeologists need to know how ancient civilizations marked time as they try to reconstruct history. At least the questioner is aware they didn't count down, as why would anyone?

[shewhomust.livejournal.com]

I agree that there are any number of valid (and interesting) questions within this general one: but it's he very generalness that makes it meaningless! Who does the inquirer mean by "people"? There's one answer if he means Chinese people, and another if he means the Jews.

Then again, when did counting the years since the (supposed) birth of Christ become general?

The question makes me picture a global conference sighing with relief as the clock ticks over and they can go from counting backwards to counting forwards...

[martyn44.livejournal.com]

Where to have the conference? Copenhagen? Whitby? Burkina Faso?

[mabfan.livejournal.com]

In academic (and Jewish) circles, the years are designated BCE for Before Common Era and CE for Common Era. So we're entering 2010 CE.

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

I've always found that a bit of a cop-out, mind - though an understandable one. Common Era just happens to start precisely at the beginning of the Christian Era - how does that not privilege Christianity and Christendom?

[mabfan.livejournal.com]

Unless the entire world is about to settle on a new calendar, it's basically acknowledging that the Gregorian calendar, which has its roots in a specific religion, has now became the de facto economic calendar of the world.

I can think of very few people who would not use the Gregorian calendar at this point.

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's what makes the cop-out understandable (though the measurement of time is not just about economics) - but calling it 'Common' gives this de facto acknowledgement of Western dominance a kind of democratic patina that I find slightly quease-making. YMMV.

[mabfan.livejournal.com]

I have also seen CE referred to as "Christian Era" and BCE as "Before Christian Era," but I think the word "Common" was used to replace "Christian" to try to avoid that feeling of privileging Christianity. (Ironically, that replacement seems to be what bothers you...)

Perhaps in 1000 years some other calendar will dominate. :-)

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

(Ironically, that replacement seems to be what bothers you...)

I'm just perverse that way! ;-)

[shewhomust.livejournal.com]

Like steepholm, I am irritated by that substitution: it assumes that the thing itself can continue to be Christianity-centred, so long as the labels are changed (like wishing your Jewish friends 'Happy Chanukka' but ignoring the High Holy Days).